Historical Accuracy — Scale Planes & Correct Insignia

Oct 21, 2013 146 Comments by

One of the things I like best about our readers is that they’re sticklers for accuracy: if we publish a photo of a plane that has incorrect markings, the letters pour in! A few years ago, a reviewer followed the box art and placed the stars and bars insignia upside-down and reversed the upper and lower wing markings, and the poor guy is still hearing about it. Lately, we’ve seen more ARFs that come with inaccurate insignia already attached, and that’s a shame–especially when it’s a nice-looking scale plane.

And what about insignia, like swastikas, that are deeply offensive to many people? In Germany, displaying a model WW II plane with a swastika would get you on the fast track to a trip to jail. We’ve wrestled with swastikas on planes in the magazine, trying to balance sensitivity with scale fidelity. Only once have we removed a swastika from a printed image, and that was on a sport-scale model that had a swastika that was incorrectly placed — on its upper wing, if memory serves. We have even published a cover with a plane that had a swastika on its tail, understanding that while it might offend some, it was a beautifully detailed scale model of a WW II fighter that deserved its place in history.

So, when do you think it’s ok to remove a scale marking from a plane like the Stuka pictured here? I’d like to hear your thoughts. Next up, my thoughts on risque WW II nose art.

Debra Cleghorn, Featured News, Scale

About the author

Executive editor About me: I’m a publishing professional who has a passion for aviation and RC, and I love creating issues, books and a website that help RC pilots to enjoy this sport even more. I admire scale aircraft and enjoy the convenience of flying smaller electrics.

146 Responses to “Historical Accuracy — Scale Planes & Correct Insignia”

  1. jim wilkinson says:

    no, i flew my stuka and fw-190 A8 IN TOP GUN FROM 92-98 AND WON HHIGH STATIC WITH THE fw-190 IN 98.
    NEVER HAD ANYONE SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THEM

    • Debra Cleghorn says:

      Thanks for your comments, Jim.

      • Walt Alexander says:

        If you remove the scale markings from a model, then it’s not a scale model anymore. If you want to remove swastikas from your models, go ahead – it will say more about you than about your models. My FW-190 is keeping its swastikas.

    • George Derewenko says:

      I understand the swastika is a terrible symbol of Nazi horror. But once we start deleting this sort of symbol from our memory we will also start forgeting and not speaking of the Holocost and the terrible other things that went on in history..We live and love this country because of our first amendment. Therefor I believe we should build to scale, period.

      GMD

      • Tony Lloyd says:

        I agree – The Swastika is a terrible reminder of those times that some people (possibly with questionable motives) would want us to “conveniently” forget. BUT – it is very valid on a scale model and if we are to obliterate this due to the (most understandable) sensitivities of some that suffered, then we better start deleting all RAF Roundels (remember those innocent civilians in Germany – NOT Nazis – who suffered terribly at the justified hands of Bomber Command) and the USA Star symbol off Mustangs (lots of innocent Japanes Children suffered in Hiroshima and Nagasaki due to planes bearing these symbols dropping the A Bombs that ended the war).
        And what about deleting all Rising Sun emblems off Zeros etc. Definately NO – these all belong on SCALE planes but I for one will never let my children forget what those symbols mean to some people, especially those that suffered so terribly. As an Aussie, I have NEVER had an old “Digger” complain about the Rising Sun sysmbol on my Zeros – just sadly tell me about some of the suffering they had under their captors in the Pacific – and then tell me how great the plane looks.
        TLL (sorry for the long spiel)

    • Nate says:

      If I had been there, Jim, I would have said something!

  2. jim wilkinson says:

    YOU WOULD HAVE TO REMOVE ALL THE SWASTIKA’S FROM ALL MODELS IF THAT WAS THE CASE,SUCH AS BOATS,TRAINS,CARS,TANKS ETC,IT IS PART OF HISTORY.

  3. Philip Bowes says:

    If we ban it, we will forget.

  4. SCOTT MEDINA says:

    I UNDERSTAND HOW THIS SYMBOL MAY BE HURTFULL TO SOME, BUT, THING OF ALL THE HURTFUL EVENT THROUGH OUT HISTORY. ARE WE GOING TO REMOVE THE ZERO FROM ALL JAP ZEROS BECAUSE OF PEARL HARBOR? I THINK NOT. AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND BUT THIS IS A MODEL AND A PEICE OF HISTORY AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS SUCH IN BOTH ASPECTS.

  5. Fred Randall says:

    I think that using symbols other than the original swastika is carrying the idea of political correctness too far. That the symbol was used by the Nazi’s is a historical fact and to eliminate it from models of any kind is to subvert history.

    I never liked Nazi’s any better than anyone else but let’s keep the symbol if nothing else but to be historically correct.

  6. de Andres, Angel says:

    History of mankind is plenty of terrible facts. The swastika represents probably one of the worse. But I think it is a part of history that we should never forget. To hide these symbols doesn´t help on this.

  7. Mike Gray says:

    When one builds a scale model it is done to represent an aircraft as it existed. Removing or changing markings takes away the accuracy of the model. The swastikas were from a sad time in human history but history is just that. The markings cannot be changed for political correctness and still be an accurate representation of reality.

  8. Glenn Nigh says:

    If it’s not as it was when in service, it’s not scale, period. We should all be proud of those who fought so we could look back and see what we could have been living under!

  9. Antonio Lomonaco says:

    Well, it’s a symbol of a cruel and sad period of history, but as we reproduce scale modelers, airplanes existed, the incorporation of the swastika in the models do not have to reflect political aspects, it is only a reproduction of an element which existed … in spite of ourselves.
    I participated as a judge of F4C in almost all national championships and Pan American, representing the Federation of Aeromodelling Argentina, and we have always tried models with the spirit to see the model for its real thing, if a model should have that brand is not going to lose points in the evaluation of static.
    sorry my English is so so…

  10. Klaus says:

    I would consider it from the opposite direction:
    especially here in Europe emotions about Nazis can be super strong and definitely extremely offensive to many people.
    Therefore you will find many scale enthusiasts here that absolutely do not want to have the swastikas on their planes (and I share this feeling).
    If you don’t want swastikas (or other offending symbols) on your models and don’t attend competitions, it’s not a problem and up to the builders.
    However, in competitions there should be an official rule that having replacements for offending symbols on the planes does not lead to lower static scores, although they are not perfectly scale then.
    Then it’s up to the pilots, whether perfect historical reproduction or taking care of emotions is more important to them – and in different parts of the world one or the other opinion will be stronger.

    So far my 5 cents…

  11. Jim Greene says:

    It is historical and really should NOT be left off….History is just that and should not be changed ..lest we forget it’s lessons!

    • H. W. 'Sandy' McCullough says:

      I agree with Jim. it may be offensive to some and I understand this but if we removed all the symbols like this we would forget history and then be open to it being repeated. Never forget lessons learned lest we have to re-learn them

  12. Rich Uravitch says:

    Using the logic that the swatika should be removed because it “represents a dark period in history” is absurd. Modelers, when engaged in modeling activities, are typically apolitical; their models are their best attempt at recreating a scale-down version of a specific airplane, not because they have decided to stir up emotions or feelings of some others with opposing political views or ideology.
    If this thinking were adopted, we would have to banish all non-Allied models from the world………including Japanese Zeros, Iranian F-14′s, Iraqi MiGs, not to mention Chinese, Russian, North Korean and airplanes from other parts of the world with equally “dark histories”, not to mention ” dark” current days. Modeling is supposed to be a relaxing, enjoyable pastime…..let’s try to keep politics and non-modeling activities out of it.

    • Jose Villar says:

      That’s the way I undesrtand. We modelers must think above this dark period and never forget how bad it was.

    • graham says:

      In thevWWII German planes carried a swastika. Therefore an accurate model must carry one. I am 69 years old and accept people older than myself have good cause to hate this symbol of the nazis. but if we are sensitive about this era then the logic must be ban all models of WWII German equipment

  13. Michael Chamberlain says:

    It was a sad time in history ,but we should model our planes as close to the originals as possible and that includes all markings that were on the planes.Its a part of history should we remove them from history books? I don’t think so!

  14. Scott Anderson says:

    I agree with Rich. We are modelers who are enjoying the sport and hobby of building and flying radio controlled scale miniatures of historical aircraft. We are interested in the unique engineering and the history of the brave pilots who fought for their countries as pilots and not as political figures. The politics may be sensitive in Germany but let’s not bring that into US competitions.
    I enjoy excellent projects such as David Andersen’s Ta-152 as well as his unusual Japanese subjects. We need the diversity to get away from the mass produced P-51 ARFs.

    • D. Beck says:

      It was David Andersen’s Ta-152 on the cover of an RC magazine years ago that really got me wanting to get into flying RC models. Though I’m mostly flying 3D helicopters now, I would still like to build that thing, including all markings that were on the real thing.

  15. Mark Kranc says:

    If we consider the swastika (hakenkreuz) a symbol of evil, then shouldn’t we also consider all of the vehicles that they were applied to as evil and ban all nazi related aircraft and other armament? It’s not the swastika that dropped bombs, but rather the aircraft that carried the swastika and the bombs. The swastika is a symbol; albeit a symbol of evil, but just that, a symbol. For scale modelling, any symbol present on the original aircraft should be faithfully represented.

  16. Lee says:

    As a retired teacher, I think removing the ugliest symbols from our history would be a terrible mistake. If a parent brings a youngster to an RC show and they see some swastikas, it is a perfect teaching moment to explain what that symbol used to represent – and that within ANY nationality, race, or ethnic group, there are some good people, some bad people, and a lot in-between. If the child questions further take them to the library where they will see many pictures full of swastikas. As they live and learn, they will not be able to void contact with evil. As for the adults that might be offended, understand that 99.9% of modelers are attempting to make NO political statement with their models.

  17. John Bourke says:

    It is obvious by the prior statements that the model aircraft community is not influenced by political correctness (and rightly so). No matter what your feelings are about the Nazi’s, they did create some very impressive aircraft and though we are in no any way celebrating anything the Nazi’s did – These aircraft did contribute to the advancement of aircraft in general and do have a place in history. In all honesty I have been reluctant to build any of the German planes for the feelings I carry, though I am not offended by anyone else who has taken on this challenge. History is, what it is, and should be remembered and studied so the mistakes are not repeated again.

  18. Gunner Benavente says:

    What a bunch of PC crap!!!!!! Lets not have any model with ANY insignia of any country at All, so we don’t offend the people of other countries that were killed by any other countries!!! How stupid are people going to get!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  19. Enrique Ihnen says:

    The markings on a model are a true historical fact we shouldn´t hide no matter how painful the events they represent might have been.

    There are many dark periods in history, (not only the Nazis), and I don´t think we should open a door to removing true historical symbols because of political correctness.

    Santiago, Chile

  20. John McCallum says:

    I agree with Philip’s comment above (“if we ban it we will forget it”). Fascism is still an abhorrent political cancer even today in Europe. God fearing, freedom loving people need to keep an eye peeled for signs of creeping fascism, even in our own country. Worse, Baby Boomers often forget that their children may know very little of simple historical facts (like what the Nazi Party did) due to changes in educational agendas, and political trends. While we are shown swastikas every day on the History Channel, et al there is still a purpose in displaying them on accurate scale models built by educated adults… that is as a reminder: don’t forget what these people did to the world.

  21. Bill Pekala says:

    You have got to be kidding. This is not even an appropriate subject to be discussing when speaking about modeling historic facts. Time to pull your PC correct head out of the sand. It doesn’t make it go away – it’s our history like it or not

  22. Jim Weiss says:

    When we conceal the past we are prone to repeat it.

  23. Frank Schwartz says:

    If it is scale, it should be on the model. if it is a Japanese plane, it should have the red ball on it…if it is a WWII German plane it should have the swastika. My personal feeling is that it is an extremely offensive symbol…but it is history, it is fact and we have enough people trying to deny history. If it is a scale model, leave the correct insignia on it.

  24. Dr. Phil Spelt says:

    In Grad. School at U. Pitt., I made MANY Jewish friends, and enjoyed their culture and humor very much. Thus, I will NOT have a Nazi plane in my collection. I find plenty of very good and unusual subjects among the various Allied planes of WW II, and all the WW I aircraft, also. That is my personal choice, I do not feel at all limited by it, and what others do is their choice. I have made my choice. Nor do I have any Japanese planes in my hanger…

  25. Doug says:

    Isn’t it ironic that Europe has become such a hot bed of Neo Nazi activity? The very place that bans the swastika on scale models.
    Scale models are just that. Representing accurate depictions of historical aircraft or arms.They are not endorsements of the regimes
    for which they stood.
    Since the main focus of the Nazi Party was to control people’s minds, perhaps we should be more concerned by the PC police.
    Since the PC plice want to control your mind, they may very well be the replcement Nazis.

  26. Seoras says:

    A lot of liberal feel-goodism and denial…might as well ban the stars and bars as offensive to the Japanese and the Union Jack for offending all of the former colonies of the British Empire.

    Who are these idiots kidding…get over it!!

  27. Bill Ferguson says:

    I grew up in bombed out London straight after WWII, my father was a POW in a German prisoner of war camp for 3 years.
    That is a fact ,and so is the swastika and other German insignia.
    Despite my background, when I build a WWII scale plane, if it is German ,it gets a swastika and any other insignia that the original had.

  28. Bob Lundeen says:

    It all depends on if your plane is an historically accruate model, or just a toy.
    In the hobby of scale plastic modeling, where the whole idea is to be 100% accruate, this arguement doesn’t even exist.
    The people objecting to the swastika are probably the same people who say “Don’t forget the past”.
    One last thought. If your not going to put a swastika on the tail. Don’t put anything at all. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

  29. Drew Davis says:

    Historically correct insigne should always be used. I have absolutely no problem with it on a WW2 aircraft, car, tank or other vehicle from that conflict.

    I would be just as against it’s use if someone built an Airwolf with a Swastika on it.

    However, I might be a little suspicious if the builder of an otherwise perfect 109 was an obvious White Supremacist with all the other Nazi crap they dress up in.

  30. Ketil Midttun says:

    It’s a part of the history and the wolrld turns:, I live in a part of Norway where the German troops burned down and destroyed every thing, it will be stupid of me to hate Germans today the same with the swastica, it is just just a symbol from the past.
    And I think it belongs to a scale looking warbird model :)

  31. James P. Morin says:

    Enough of this PC nonsense. If one is to build a scale model, then one must be as accurate as possible in the decalling. If someone is offended by the accuracy of a recreation then let them cut paper dolls out instead. We, as modellers, are not interested in making political statements or running for office……..

    Shame on you for even entertaining this notion…

    • Debra Cleghorn says:

      I agree with you on scale accuracy, but respectfully disagree that we shouldn’t discuss these issues. If you ignore the PC people who are trying to whitewash and bubble-wrap the world(and even history), the vocal minority wins.

  32. Glenn Stubbs says:

    If you are going to ban one symbol, you have to ban them all, including American and British. American and British aircraft deliberately firebombed Japanese and German cities. Then we nuked Japan. Do you think the survivors of those attacks are any less sensitive than the Jews?
    The entire discussion is ridiculous. Political correctness is the greater evil. Let this alone.

    • Pete Juergens says:

      I agree 100% with Glenn….If you’re going to eliminate the swastika on German planes then you better be ready to eliminate all insignia on all model aircraft.

  33. Tony Cynor says:

    Close your eyes a stick your head in the sand. That is how many are. Grow up and get over it, recognize the historical facts and
    don’t let it happen again. Censorship is not the way!

  34. Dave says:

    I too, prefer not model Axis Power aircraft, period. I don’t want to limit those who do, but you won’t catch me admiring their work. For me, modeling an Axis Power aircraft would be like saying I admire the original work, which I do not. But at the same time, I respect the right of others to admire Axis Power aircraft and to model them as accurately as possible, if they so choose.

    Imitation is the best form of flattery… I have no desire to flatter Hitler or those who did his bidding.

  35. John Santonocito says:

    As unpleasant as it is we can not ban history anymore than we can ban teaching about Hitler

  36. Leslie says:

    This falls into the category of “tasteless.” The swastika remains an offensive symbol to many, and when I see someone flying or building a German plane emblazoned with that symbol, I wonder whether there could be some affinity for what it represents. This also applies to product reviews. There are so many different airplanes that we can build (or review) as models, and so many decorative schemes for each, so why build one like the Stuka which gunned down and bombed innocent civilians with a terrifying piercing wail from the wing sirens? This is not to say that I would ban or prohibit these emblems or models. It is a free country and you can express youself however you want. But for most of us, this is a hobby, not a historical museum effort. When you spend your time and hobby money on a model of a German death machine, you are invariably making a small statement about your feelings, even if those feelings are “I don’t care about it” or “I just like to be historically accurate in my hobby.” As I said before, it’s primarily a matter of taste.

    • Rick says:

      Soooo… the American or British bombers who bombed Germany and obviously killed many civillians aren’t considered death machines?

    • Richard Dimberio says:

      For myself, I gave up shushi because of the Japanese “Rape of Nanking” But on the other hand I took the shark teeth off my P-40 because it was the last thing some poor Japanese boy saw as he was shot down. I don’t want to rub it in as they are now our friends sharing their autos with us and all. Oh yeah, when I have a cocktail I no longer have a little “nip.”No model of the Enola Gay for me, no sir. All of those hurt feeling possibilities you know. Stupid topic. But, machine guns on the wings of our warbirds are still in “good taste?”

  37. Todd Breda says:

    It’s about intent and context. RC scale hobbyists care about historical accuracy with their aircraft markings. Not political associations, propaganda and agenda. If people really want to get worked up about what markings are being displayed on RC scale warbirds then perhaps they need to examine the parameters of their own moral compass.

  38. oldrich skacel says:

    IF SOMEONE IS AGAINST THE “SWASTIKA” ON MODEL PLANES FROM THE 2ND WW, THEN WE MIGHT AS WELL BAN THE STARS AND STRIPES, AND THE BRITISH LOGO’S ON THE PLANES!!!!…I JUST ONLY REMEMBER THE BOMBING OF DRESDEN IN GERMANY,WHICH WAS A TOTAL USELESS ACTION, ON A TOWN WITH INOCENT PEOPLE AND NO HEAVY INDUSTRY AT ALL!!!..TRUMAN, CHURCHIL EISENHOWER, AND ALL OTHERS WHO PLANNED THAT ACTION, SHOULD HAVE BEEN BROUGHT TO JUSTICE AS “WAR-CRIMINALS”, SIMILAR TO GADDAFIE AS WELL AS ASSAD IN SIRIA!!!!!!
    JUST THINK ABOUT THE LOGIC OF IT ALL!!!!

  39. Stan Stein says:

    No other symbol in modern times evokes more negatve emotion than that representing Nazism. For years, it was a symbol that was very hurtful to me.
    But, the swastika design has not been exclusively Nazi and over time I’ve come to the rationalization that it has appeared in native American designs, ancient mid-east symbolism, in the culture of India, Norse cultures.

    So, it was with mixed emotion that I’ve softened my feelings for the sake of accuracy in modeling.
    As a kid growing up among veterans of WW1, there were many who resented my practice of placing the various black crosses which were carried on German & Austrian WW1 aircraft.
    They had bad memories, they had suffered through the German bombardments with poison gas.
    But, in order to complete a model’s color and markings, that was necessary.

    Now, the same rings true about the Luftwaffe swastika marking. In the end, an accurate (as possible) scale model is compromised without that marking IMHO.
    Another point, I recently finished a WW1 Pfalz Parasol a/c., which was the very same plane as the Morane-Saulnier parasol. I decided to decorate same with Finnish A.F. insignia which were a blue swastikas on a whte circular backgrounds. Was it the blue color that made it acceptable to me? Anyway, it’s flying and satisfies my stand-off standard for accuracy.

    I’ve made my peace with the swastika, very grudgingly, but nevertheless I won’t allow a faux symbol on a German WW2 a/c’s fin to alter fidelity. I’d choose not to build it at all.
    But, it’s a small world, the same late model BF109 was used by the Israeli A.F. when it was the only fighter plane available in 1948. A BF109J (?) showing the Star of David!

    Maybe, just maybe, there’s a psychological reason why I prefer to build WW1 German a/c! Balkan or Maltese crosses!
    I wonder, do stamp collectors avoid German postage stamps used during the time of the Nazi government?
    I have no answer for that.

  40. Mark Trott says:

    Since you don’t have the courage to post my last reply. I’ll make it simple for you. Stop the PC crap Model Airplane News. History should be seen and learned exactly as it was. Not rewritten. People choose to be offended. I don’t avoid Italian Restaurants displaying the flag of Italy because the Romans butchered and enslaved my ansestors. Why don’t we remove any refrence to Hell from the Bible too? I guess NAZI will be the next N word we can’t say.

    • Debra Cleghorn says:

      Hi Mark, I honestly can’t find a previous response from you, and can promise that I’ve posted every single response that has come in so far (and I’ve even combed through the comment’s “spam filter” to find legitimate comments!).

      If MAN were PC, we wouldn’t have published a cover with a Focke Wulfe 190 with the swastika in full view on the vertical fin. I did receive a lot of comments – both positive and negative – after that cover and whenever we publish a plane with swastikas, which is why I decided to write this blog. Dialog is critical to keep the PC hounds at bay … otherwise the vocal minority wins!

  41. Barry Harmon says:

    History is to be remembered so that we can learn from it, not hidden or revised. Yes, the swastika was used by the Nazi regime as a symbol of their power. Because of that there are some for whom it is a symbol of hatred and oppression. Yet the fact remains that it is a symbol that reminds us of what can happen if the worst of human emotion and ambition are allowed to rule.

    Personally I don’t approve of or condone what that brutal regime did to the peoples of Europe and Western Asia (and I include the German people), yet neither do I approve of or condone the censorship of the swastika from otherwise historically correct markings on scale aircraft. The symbol, like the aircraft itself, was just a tool. It was not the regime nor those who abused their fellow humans while using those tools. If the tool can be equated to those abusing it then I could make the same argument that ANY national symbol should be banned, including our own stars and stripes. Those of my faith faced persecution and death, and were even under extermination orders long before Hitler and WWII.

    As far as I’m concerned the removal of the swastika from models otherwise correctly marked is revisionist history and not to be tolerated.

  42. V. Giovanni says:

    I lost an uncle who was a B-17 crew member over Germany in 1944. His acft. was shot down by German fighters. My choice is to not own or fly any German swastika marked airplanes. I believe it is a personal choice of the hobbyist weather to build and fly these acft. and should not be banned. The option should be available for competitors to use or delete markings without penalty in scale events..

  43. Al says:

    “Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it”. I can understand the feelings that a symbol may stir in an individual, but trying to banish that symbol does not erase the actions of those that used (abused) that symbol. The symbol is not guilty of any evil doing(s), only mankind is.

    Dr. Spelt, I have Japanese friends; does that mean that I cannot have any planes with American markings in my collection?

    I could’t agree more with Rich Uravitch and Tony Cynor.

  44. James Deal says:

    Censorship? Is that not what the Nazis were about? Reality is reality we should learn from and deal with it. If we do not learn from the past we will be doomed to repeat it.

  45. Jerry says:

    Leave the swastika alone. Its a historical fact. I’m sick of all this political correctness and trying to rewrite history in order to avoid offending someone.

  46. John Swilley says:

    Facts are just that, facts, as is history, which also pertains to this subject matter. While the subject matter, the swastika, may be inflammatory, we must bear in mind the context/application with which we are dealing. To portray the model without the insignia would be an inaccurate representation; the goal is to depict a model of an actual aircraft, not to espouse nazi rhetoric.

  47. David Snyder says:

    I do understand these symbols are a part of history, at this history should be remembered for what it represented. For example, it is possible to tour the concentration camps or tour a Holocaust museum. We do not want to forget this event and what it meant to so many harmed by it.

    However, I will not purchase or fly a plane with a Swastika. It is too offensive a time in history for me to enjoy it as part of my hobby.

    At the same time, I do understand why others would have no qualms about doing so and I would not want to limit their rights to pursue their hobby as they see fit.

  48. GENE STEINBROOK says:

    LET IT BE, 75% DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE SWASTIKA

    WHAT’S NEXT , BAN THE CRICIFIX

    GENE STEINBROOK

  49. aaron says:

    Putting authentic markings on scale Warbirds War equipment is merely representing the equipment as accurately as possible for the time period reflected. To start down the path of the politically expedient.. i mean politically correct jis a slippery slope
    What about the Japanese Zero’s must we remove the rising sun as well, how bout people flying Migs?

    How about military antiques in musuems should they be remodeled?
    War re-enactments with “neutral uniforms” perhaps?

    Now if a bunch of blonde dudes show up at the field in full SS uniforms, flying nazi birds only, and goose stepping around place…we may have an issue. We will have to send up a fleet of P-51s I guess.

  50. GnosticBrian says:

    The Swastika is a truly ancient symbol, at least 6,000 years old. It was and still is used as a symbol of good luck. Given its long history I don’t think its perversion by the Nazi party for a period of about 25 years should mean that it is forever banned. Restore the Swastika to its true meaning and leave the Nazis in the dustbin of history. I’m certainly leaving the Swastikas on my scale model of Stamford Tuck’s Hurricane – each one represented a Nazi plane downed.

  51. Pat Ryder says:

    It ie no seceret that wou can’t please everyone. Too maney people are too thin skined .I’m not a religen zelot, but if you ever said th e Lords Prayer the is something about forgiving in there. the Germans had some very nice aircraft. I have several of them .If this offends someone they may have something that would affend me too if I WERE AS SKINED as they are. if the swastica is on my models , you do not have to look at it. If my typing ia bad get over it. HATRED AND BAD FEELINGS take up too much energy.

  52. Brian Molloy says:

    Any country’s military aircraft insignia ultimately represents its political ideology which is inevitably offensive to some group, somewhere, at sometime.

    Regardless of the best intentions, alteration, deletion, or prohibition of any historically-correct marking is censorship of the historical record. Censorship, many would argue is an act that is “wrong in itself”, (“malum in se”). In this case, it would be an attempt to correct one wrong with another wrong.

    Censorship and politics have no place in modeling. There are innumerable venues from which to debate and excoriate a political ideology or historical event.

  53. Charles Cassil says:

    At least one example of most types of enemy aircraft fell into allied hands in airworthy condition during the war. The markings were removed or painted over, and American, British, etc. markings were applied before the allied forces evaluated the aircraft in flight . There are good photographs of most of these aircraft available for documentation. Flying the only model of some really great enemy aircraft with allied markings instead of enemy markings in a contest could even get you some points for thinking outside the box.

  54. Tim Barrett says:

    Sadly, it’s a part of a tragic part of history, but the symbol but not make the policies, the politics at the time did.
    If you go to a museum that displays WW2 artifacts, the swasticas are left intact for a reason, to maintain authenticity, and when making a scale model of a subject, the same holds true.
    It’s also a way that makes us never forget the tragedies inflicted by the group responsible at that period in time.
    I don’t mean to sound harsh, but it”s like the person who buy’s a house next to an airport, then complains about the noise. If you are offended, don’t look….Common sense tells you that the symbol on a model airplane is not there to stimulate a resurgance of the third reich……it’s a damned model not a political statement!

  55. Larz says:

    History is just that…History. We can’t run from it or change it. We can however learn from it. Any symbol used in place of the swastica would just be a different symbol that everyone looking at it would know that it represents the swastica. The German aircraft and engineering were/was some of the best of the times. The fact that the leader of the nation chose to do so many cruel and unthinkable things doesn’t take away from that. These aircraft are a very important part of OUR history and they need to be modeled to full and complete scale for generations on to see and learn the history behind them and the terrible things done by the Nazi regime during WWII. Otherwise we all forget and things have a tendancy to repeat themselves. I love my scale models and have them from every nation from that era. I appreciate them for what they are…Great artifacts of history and engineering.

  56. Stew Beef says:

    I can’t imagine getting more upset about the symbol than the aircraft. If you are going for scale, include the symbol – it’s a must. If you are offended by the symbol, should you not be completely disgusted by the tool that was used to further what the symbol represents. Seriously, are there people that hate the swastika but love the German Stuka? Think about that for a minute. That’s sort of strange. The swastika represents more than just the Nazi’s. The Stuka?

  57. John Gloe says:

    What’s the next step in being PC?

    Band all symbols, pictures,photos. videos, movies, books, TV programs, talk, models, public and private collections of anything that had to do with or that represented any and all things of the Axis in and from WWII!

    While we’re at it, let’s take it a step farther and band all the same for the Allies; I’m sure we caused a few heart-aches, anguish and insecurity too.

    Sounds a bit foolish or should I say really STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!

  58. Sean says:

    I agree that swastika represented one of the darkest and most despicable times in our earths history, however deleting/omitting/banning the swastika is not the answer, it should be left up to the individual building the model, as for contests, maybe make a custom category for those that do not wish to place the swastika on their models, after all scale model building is about building a faithful and true reproduction of the original, we need to stop this before it goes too far, it’s bad enough that in the remake of the Dambuster’s they’re changing the black labs name so as not to offend anyone, problem there is now you’re changing history. sorry got a little of topic there, but I think you get my point. Being PC is fine as long as it doesn’t interfere with or alter history

  59. Kevin Bates says:

    Political Correctness at its finest (read worst) here ! Like the others have said, leave it alone and look in your own back yard! I tell my children to remember when they think about accusing someone “When you point your finger at someone else, turn your hand over and look at the three fingers pointing back at you!” . Now that might not make any sense to some but, think about it.

    As others have said, whats next ? Oh! I know burn all the books about that they dis-agree with ! Wait that’s been done hasn’t it ?

  60. ED HAYES says:

    I HAVE A R/C SCALE FW190/A8.I ALSO HAVE A C/L SCALE FW190. BOTH HAVE SWASTIKAS ON THE VERTICAL FIN.IF THEY DID NOT HAVE THESE MARKINGS THEN THEY WOULD NOT BE SCALE!!!!!

  61. Joseph a. Santa Cruz says:

    THose who forget history are doomed to forever repeat it!! If in the course of us becoming so PC we will forget the true history, Too much of our history has been changed and forgotten, the real tragedy is we forget the many who died to fight madness ans evil. Our history is all the good, bad and evil so our children never forget it.

  62. J.R.Bourdony says:

    I think this is an anti democracy Jewish propaganda.

  63. Nic van Rensburg says:

    Just imagine us modellers not being able to build a scale plane true to the original. The swastika is part of history and should be replicated on all relevant model scale planes/tanks/boats of the time…….

  64. LOU says:

    Pollitical correctness has already gone to far, we need to keep some or the old values and symbals so we don”t forget those who were killed for the wrong reasons, we should have the correct swastica on the planes just to remind us !!

  65. Dan Arnold says:

    I will never fly a piper Cub or P-51. Too many other people have already done it and probably better than I ever could. Less common aircraft interest me including many Soviet, Japanese, and Nazi era German planes. If I’m going to build a scale model or even buy a pre painted scale foamie park flyer I want it to represent the actual aircraft as accurately as possible. I think it’s rediculous that the manufacturer of some of the afore mentioned scale foamie Me 109s and FW-190s takes the trouble of being accurate down to the squadron markings but leaves off the swastikas. Couldn’t they just leave the vertical fins blank and include swastika decals for politically insensitive pigs such as myself? I have a Me-109 kit sittting in my attic that I hope to build some day as a Finnish aircraft, and just for the record, the blue swastikas on the wings have nothing to do with the Nazi party. When I first started reading model airplane magazines back about 1955 swastikas were never a problem and I even remember seeing them on semi scale and sport models, (and how about them Maltese crosses on Ugly Sticks)? Heck, if I ever build something really weird that could pass for a late war wonder weapon I might even put some swastikas on it, especially if it was a flying wing.

  66. Larry Schreffler says:

    I feal as those above, the swasticka is a part of history and should not be forgotten, as the (meat ball ) zero on Japanees planes.
    If some are offended they may remove or cover the emblem on their plane.

  67. Dave Swanepoel says:

    PC gone nuts!! This is complete lunacy

    The swastika is a good example actually – An ancient symbol of protection hijacked briefly by the Nazi’s. And we should ban it because of this?

    If you do this where do you stop? Who decides what is ok or not?

  68. Rick says:

    It’s an historical fact that the swastika was displayed on a number of German fighters. Building an accurate scale model of one of those warplanes in no way indicates a condoning of Nazism. Any modeler who accurately represents the full scale aircraft after which his or her model is patterned should feel proud of that achievement. No one should take offense from such an accomplishment. No modeler should feel he or she must misrepresent the appearance of their otherwise scale model just because the real aircraft was a war instrument of a monstrously evil political movement. It was what it was, and its existence should not be denied by such a misrepresentation.

  69. Robert Cline says:

    I Think that taking them off would be turning out heads away from history. We need to remember the bad things this represented and never make the same mistakes again. My dad fought against this symbol and he always a german fighter plane from this era doesnt look right without it.

  70. S Curry says:

    Omitting the Swastika and not downgrading in judging for it sounds like a better option than some.

  71. Jim P says:

    I have often wondered about this topic, if its a true scale model then it should be there I think, But if very semi scale or “fun scale” then I wouldnt put a swastika on even tho it doesnt bother me personally, but I think it is not something to be taken lightly.

    What I really want, and these columns have supplied some good info, is how to answer someone that is offended (or just asking) so that I do not hurt feelings but also provide a clear and thoughtful response that will actually help them and others that they later talk to.

    I do not honour the Nazi regime, or what they did, by building a scale german plane with swastikas. I would respect genuine soldiers, airmen, who were defending thier country and would not have a part in the atrocities that are now clear to us. I suppose that I honour the desigers, and builders, of the plane. They were in Germany, citizens yes, but true blue(red?) nazis?
    Dont forget that many of the young men of that regime were totally misled. We dont build these planes to honour the nazi regime, others have to understand that.

    I vote for the theme “Lest we forget”, young people sometimes really have no idea about WW2 (or WW1 for that matter) and if they learn of the horrors of nazi germany (and how Japan treated prisoners of war for that matter) they say “that could not happen now” and perhaps they doubt that it happened that way at all – it IS hard to understand how people could be like that.
    We in our part are helping to keep this history alive, lest we forget.

  72. John Cochran says:

    I think the lesson is in 99% of the response of this opinion poll. Political Correctness has gone completely overboard. Let’s not offend anyone because it was a dark time in history. But its ok if we forget historical fact in the face of such a time? This idea boggles the mind. And lets not forget that we’re talking about something as mundane as a symbol just because of what it may or may not represent. As a US Citizen freedom of expression is a guaranteed right even if I might not agree with that expression. Its not a right limited by the sensibility of others, nor should it be. Otherwise we’re talking about censorship.

  73. Andy Meysner says:

    It is a personal choice. If a modeller feels that (e.g.) a swastika should be left on that is fine, but they should also be aware it may offend some people. The modeller has a right to defend the accuracy of their model too. I personally choose to leave it off because I feel more comfortable that way and it does not significantly alter the accuracy of the model.
    Bottom line, modellers personal choice, and everyone should respect both points of view.

  74. Jim P says:

    I have often wondered about this topic, if its a true scale model then it should be there I think, But if my plane is very, very semi scale or “fun scale” then I wouldnt put a swastika on even tho it doesnt bother me personally, but I think it is not something to be taken lightly.

    What I really want, and these columns have supplied some good info, is how to answer someone that is offended (or just asking) so that I do not hurt feelings but also provide a clear and thoughtful response that will actually help them and others that they later talk to.

    I do not honour the Nazi regime, or what they did, by building a scale german plane with swastikas. I would respect genuine soldiers, airmen, who were defending thier country and would not have a part in the atrocities that are now clear to us. I suppose that I honour the desigers, and builders, of the plane. They were in Germany, citizens yes, but true blue(red?) nazis?
    Dont forget that many of the young men of that regime were totally misled, not “evil”. We dont build these planes to honour the nazi regime, others need to understand that.

    I vote for the theme “Lest we forget”, people sometimes really have no idea about WW2 (or WW1 for that matter) and if they learn of the horrors of nazi germany (and how Japan treated prisoners of war for that matter) they say “that could not happen now” and perhaps they doubt that it happened that way at all – it IS hard to understand how people could be like that.
    We in our part are helping to keep this history alive, lest we forget.

  75. Ronald Withey says:

    Getting rid of the swastika on ww2 aircraft, is like taking the flag off all our planes, the red star off of russian planes, the roundels off of british planes, etc. Learn about the past, dont forget it, otherwise it could repeat itself.

  76. Roy H says:

    Right! Let’s all be politicvally correct and leave off the swasticas, British roundels, the Japanese red ball, the American flag insignias, Canadian maple leafs etc. Pretty soon we will be so politically correct that we will not be allowed to say Mery Christmas for fear we would offend people of other faiths. Whoops, that’s already happened!

  77. jessie kehoe says:

    leave the swastikas alone. they were merely a symbol. then why not stop producing WWII German models all together? after all, they were the war machines that were killing, not the symbols.

  78. Tod says:

    Hi Im a former Marine and RC Pilot airplanes and Heli’s and love scale aircraft on both sides. I do respect german design at the time in WWII they had the most advantced airplanes in the world- I don’t like what they did or the japaniez but its our history. I fly and build amercian aircraft only for this reason. But in my opinion this is a free country and if your doing scale project the is axis side or alied side the details matter for the realistic look even down to markings ,rivets , lines to detailed instruments. just let us not forget and enjoy a beauitful scale model

  79. Jim Vinson says:

    We cannot and should not rewrite history, good or evil. Scale models should be shown with the correct markings. The Swastika probably has the worst connotation, but what about a red star on a Mig 15? Indeed, some people would object to a model of the Enola Gay.
    Jim Vinson

  80. Bill says:

    That’s what they looked like, so leave them on!

  81. Les Mason says:

    As a British person who experienced the unforgettable sound of those twin Daimler engined bombers i can see how some would be upset by the swastika symbal. However, when I saw for myself the complete destruction of most of the German city of Cologne by the thousand bomber raid I can also imagine just as many folk who cannot stand the sight of the British roundels or the U.S. markings. We MUST remember with clarity the history of those dark days and hopefully not repeat them. I totally respect the scale modeler of any warbird who makes sure his creation is accurate to the last detail, after all that is the true meaning and purpose of scale modeling.

  82. Bob says:

    to change history is to ignor it. never change it so we never forget it

  83. Steve R. says:

    The Nazi sawastikas is OK on World War 11 Model.

  84. Rodger Hangartner says:

    Geez, if you build a German WW2 scale MODEL, the swastikas belong there, just like roundels belong on a Spitfire, the rising sun on a Zero, and stars and bars on a P-51. PC has NO place in modeling.

  85. Ron Reeve says:

    I have flown a Don Smith FW190 1/5 scale for about 10 years and
    the swastikas were correctly placed on the tail. I never had any
    negative comment. I think people understand that the airplanes
    are scale replicas of the real thing and have all the necessary
    scale markings. This airplane was flown and displayed in many
    local airshows.

    To remove the swastikas would be giving in to a minority of
    complainers who want everything politically correct. The planes
    are scale and should always be required to show the scale
    markings including swastikas.

  86. Terry says:

    Well let’s see….. I had a German grandfather on my Mom’s side of the family that I never met.He was a senior engineer at BMW radial motor works that supplied the motors for the Focke Wulf. He objected to the SS forcing Jewish slave labor to work at his plant for him and didn’t really care for Hitler’s war machine. He decided to stay home in protest of their forced labor in the cruelest of conditions. He was dragged out in front of his house and shot along with some neighbors that worked at the plant.
    Yeah, I hated the Nazis for that but I didn’t take things out on the German people as a whole. (A great majority of German people didn’t believe Hitler was worth following!)

    Let’s switch gears: The folks on my Dad’s side of the family were from the south. (Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi,) and my wife’s family from Tennessee. As you might well guess, way on down the line there were a few of our relatives that ate grits and hung a Confererate Flag out front of their humble abodes.

    In both instances, history was history and re-writing it because some people found it offensive to them just didn’t make sense to me. Hate or dislike Hitler! Don’t try to re-write history! Those people that do are just as wrong to tamper with the history books as the bad guys doing all the killing way back then!

    The Jewish friends I have would not be offended with me having a model airplane with a swastika….. They’d be more offended if I tried to cover over and forget what REALLY happened during that dark time in the history of mankind.

    Change? If you get upset about a swastika and what it stood for, how come we aren’t getting all politically correct over that unconstitutionally incorrect fella in the White House? Just sayin’……….

  87. J. Kinkade says:

    The irony of this whole discussion is that by banning the use of an ancient symbol like the swastika because of its association with the Nazi’s is to become more like the Nazi movement itself.
    On April 6, 1933, the German Students Association’s Main Office for Press and Propaganda proclaimed a nationwide “Action against the Un-German Spirit,” to climax in a literary purge or “cleansing” (Säuberung) by fire. This was only one of many purges or cleansings.
    How is the elimination of a symbol such as the swastika any different than the burning of books containing views of this world contrary to the beliefs of the Nazi’s. Hitler was very aware of the psychological power of symbolism. He always liked the symbol of the swastika prominently displayed in the stained glass of the Austrian church he attended in his youth.
    If it was possible to eliminate the swastika from our conscience would we be eliminating just the Nazi’s or would we be deliberatly eliminating the American Indian tribes and other ancient cultures that used the swastika prominently in their respective cultures? Do we eliminate the similiar Hindu symbol that points to the left as opposed to the right like the German swastika. Where do we stop? Do we eliminate the use of all RLM colors because someone is so sensitive to the atrocities of the past that they can’t bear to see anything that can be associated with a failed regime of 70 or more years ago. Why does the hyper-sensitivities of the few dictate a need to lie to the masses about what happened in the past? The atrocities of the Nazi’s death camps should never be forgotten. But what about the canabilism of allied prisonors of war by the Japanese “Spirit Warriors”? Japanese Army officers commonly consumed Chinese civilians and other prisoners, so where is the outcry to strike from memory anything from the Japanese?
    Whether you ban the image or burn it from recorded history like the Nazi’s, you have not changed history. You have only hid it from view. “Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” — George Santayana

  88. Gordon Wilhelm says:

    Making a model of an aircraft in no way promotes the ideology behind the original full scale airplane. Western society is WAY too concerned with offending other folks!

  89. Geoff Goodworth says:

    Banning the swastika is, as others have said, PC nonsense. Leave scale models true to their era with all their markings. If you have a personal problem with the symbol, find another aircraft to model.

  90. Roy says:

    I fly a FW190 with a swastika on the tail. My family often tells me stories of when the nazis invaded their country of Greece. I dont regard it as disrespect. Although after going through the holocaust museum in Washington DC I thought about selling the FW190. That thought lasted all of 5sec. Dont blame the aircraft. People kill people not guns or aircraft!

  91. Eamon Egan says:

    Removal of the swastika from scale model aircraft represents nothing more than revisionism. The Nazis were revisionists. So therefore it is easier to draw your own conclusion as to what the appropriate treatment of reality should be.

    Personally, I don’t respect revisionism wherever you may find it. History bears stark testament to those who worshiped at the ‘House of Revisionism’. In a true democracy, if something offends the eye then the eye has the right to turn away.

  92. Eran says:

    I am Jewish and have been born and lived in Israel to the age of 29. I believe that all markings should be historically accurate and object to “fixing” history. This should not only apply to models, but also to museums exhibiting the full size aeroplanes.
    I have no problem owning WW2 German RC model with swastikas if it represent the correct paint job of the period. On the contrary, it attract questions and discussion which provide us with opportunity to remember why we do not want a repeat of the events that made the symbol so sensitive.
    I currently build a Me-109 which will be painted in Swiss markings. I am constantly being asked why I choose this aeroplane. I answer that first, I like it, and second, I am wondering if the other person knows that many of the Me-109 were build using forced labor? This provide an opportunity to discuss history and the ugly events of WW2.

  93. Dan Buckner says:

    CENSORSHIP !!!!!!!! Plain and simple. People telling people whats right or wrong. Grow up people, were all adults here !!!!!!!!!

  94. Bob Harrison says:

    Forcing a modeler to produce an inaccurate model is hypocrisy. It is “Group Think” at it’s worse. And THAT is the root of evil. THAT is how the NAZI party operated. It disallowed others to express differences of opinion. It allowed no dissension. And that was the environment that led to horrific events.

    Better to have a symbol of evil clearly evident, and remember the evil, than to pretend it did not exist. Don’t forget the hammer and sickle, the red star, red disk, the confederate flag, etc. etc.

    And let us not forget that these “evil” symbols are the symbols of those who lost their war. The symbols of the “Winners”, of course, are politically acceptable. Remember that the residents of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Koln, Dresden, and Wounded Knee may consider the Stars and Stripes offensive and a symbol of evil.

    Hate evil, not a symbol. Resist Group Think! Speak Freely!

  95. Jim Kale says:

    It is history, it cannot be changed. Some countries have tried to change history or ban it entirely. It never works. Plus, if you begin to ban one thing then the demands quickly come to ban other topics or images.

  96. Mike Mitchell says:

    It really saddens me that politacal correctness is destroying freedom of speach. Agreed that some of these symbols , including some from our side of the ocean eg. the souhern flag, is offensive. My gosh they are even taking out the pledge of alegience and banning the national anthem from atheletic events.
    Now to paraphrase some one who has said this far better than me. I dont agree with all that is said but I will defend the right to say it with my life.

    How lond before churches are banned from displaying their symbol on their property because someone driving by might be offended? Or that matter how long before the American flag is banned because it offends…its happened already.

    Well I tell you some of the things said on Facebook really offends me so lets ban Facebook, I don’t like being called a sinner so lets ban preachers, the English lanquage and mathematics really cause me great stress so ban education.

    I could keep going untill I have banned everything and every person on earth.

  97. Don McCormack says:

    Scale models are just that. Minatures of an original, correct in as much detail as the modeler can accomplish. The originals had lots of different markings. To be a “True” scale model the minature needs them all. The model does not reflect the “Opinion” of the builder, rather it shows the builder’s skill in attempting to duplicate in minature all aspects of the oiriginal.

  98. Ron says:

    There is no room for showing Nazi swastika in any place on the present world for decoration, it surely reminds the 6M of my people been butchered on those days….

  99. Bill D says:

    It’s absurd to say that we’re in danger of forgetting about the Nazis if we leave the swastika off our German WWII aircraft. They did plenty to remember them by.

    The swastika comes with an incredible about of bad baggage. If I saw you walking down the street with a big swastika on your T-shirt, my first thought would *not* be that you’re celebrating your pride in Hindu or Native American culture. The Nazis corrupted that symbol forever.

    There will be no swastikas on *my* aircraft, but feel free to put them on yours. It’s a personal choice.

  100. Bruce Saunders says:

    Historical accuracy in the building and marking of scale model aircraft is just that. If ones feelings about this time in our history run very deeply, just don’t build German or Japanese models. I don’t. That being said, if it’s a Kraut plane and was marked with a swastika, that, unfortunately, is the way it was.

  101. Greg McCullough says:

    It is true that the swastika is a symbol of horror, death and insanity, however, German WWII aircraft did ocassionally display this symbol, and if the intent is to accurate depict one of these aircraft it is not complete without the swastika. Secondly, I believe it falls under the first ammendment, not that anyone would actually support such a facist movement, but we still have a right to decorate as we please. To thosse that it offends, I’m sorry. Those planes did bear the swastika and that is that. There are many things that offend me, but I don’t ask anyone to look out for my feelings, I do that myself .

  102. Jim Winchel says:

    Here’s MY take on it; it’s NOT a decoration nor an attempt to promote a political agenda, it is simply the WAY IT WAS and to strip insignia from models of aircraft (or boats, or cars, or whatever) that played a part in the history that got us to this world would be not only ludicrous, but stupid and short-sighted. What would you do NEXT, strip the Stars and Stripes from all American aircraft? Or the British? Or any OTHER nation’s symbols? We don’t honor the Nazi regime, we recognize it for what it was; something that did produce some very fine military hardware. It is true that some of it was used for evil purposes, but some could make the same argument for the Atomic Bombs that ended the war with Japan and the B-29s that carried them. A SCALE model is just that: a MODEL of something that did exist. Take the politics out of it; as a modeler, I don’t pay attention to that kind of nonsense, other than to EXPECT those symbols to be there if it’s a German aircraft. Sorry; the dead are dead and stripping the reminders of WHY they died won’t bring them back, it will only make it too easy to FORGET their deaths. And while you’re at it, how about taking off the BMW symbols on cars? Or the Mitsubishi logo on them? How far is this blind reaction going to go? Forget it; leave your overly sensitive feelings out of it and live NOW. Hiding it won’t make it “not happen”, but remembering it will help keep it from happening AGAIN!

  103. Jim Winchel says:

    I agree 100% with Bob Harrison! Stand up and do NOT be afraid to remind people that bad things DID happen and certain symbols were used by those who perpetrated them. Never forget! If your feelings are hurt by seeing those symbols, maybe you ought to look into yourself to figure out WHY you hurt and accept it. You can’t change history so accept it and move on. The dead won’t come back just because your feelings are stroked; honor them by keeping a reminder of what happened in front of everyone so it won’t ever happen AGAIN! Scale means just that; it’s NOT a “decoration” (like a starburst) and it’s not a political statement nor the endorsement for one! You can’t sanitize the past, let’s correct NOW! Leave the markings ALONE!

  104. Micmac says:

    All the pc huggy-kissy guys- think Dakota Souix, Lakota Souix Oglala Souix, Cheyenne, Blackfoot and Seminole.
    Do you think they all feel proud and patriotic when the stars & stripes are waved over “their” land? People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

  105. Micmac says:

    Ask an American Indian [native American] how proud and patriotic he feels when the stars &stripes fly over “his” land.
    What is-is, suck it up and move on.

  106. Jerry Barnhisel says:

    Banning the use of the swastika is as dumb as banning the confederate flag or the flag of south Vietnam. If we remove everything that offends someone it would be a boring black and white world and probably that would offend some.
    I am building a ARF Junkers JU 87 (Stuka) at this time, and rest assured it will have the swastika on it every place the WWII version did. Not to be offensive but being a scale plane to be true to the original.

  107. Bob Galler says:

    If the symbol was there as originally used, not added, and can be seen everyday on the military channel, it should stay on the model. The symbol should not be used willy nilly on a model that may or may not have used it, or in the typically not used locations. Otherwise we start taking other things off of other authentic symbols soon, I do not have ot mention, such as confederate flag or Enola Gaymight offed etc.etc. Bottom line- if for scale authenticity no issues.

  108. Larry Tate says:

    An accurate scale model from WW2 is exactly that, a scale model. Do we alter history by ignoring the unpleasant events? Why should anyone be offended by the factual representation of history? Building and flying a model is not condoning what was done in the past. But it is also not ignoring it.

  109. Bob Pergande says:

    Hiding or shadowing the facts about what happened in history is by no means helpful, we must live and learn from what has happen and teach others, no matter how hurtful or unbelievable it was.
    I realize some people regret being reminded about WWI, WWII, and other wars. From what I alone have read, they were dreadful acts upon humanity, my own father didn’t talk about WWII at all to me, even though I was a history buff and loved war stories. I felt he wished to forget what he saw, so I never pressed the issue, I’ve learned that most veterans avoided the subject of their service, even close friends seemed to avoid talking about it.
    I have heard and felt the hate from some of the older generation veterans, that saw my German markings and aircraft, I really think they would of liked to shot them down !

  110. Jerry Festa says:

    It is history….live with it

  111. Jerry Festa says:

    It is History, live with it and learn from it.

  112. Jim M says:

    It all boils down to PCorrectness run a muck but you have to admit that it has been an affective tool for some folks just using the “I am offended” excuse to get their way.

    Recently there has been some who advocate not displaying the stars and bars because it offends some folks.
    I say just get over it and go on with life.

    So as an Angelo male I am offended when I see governmental ads for employment opportunities stating ” minorities and female applicants encouraged to apply”. Read between the lines what do you determine? For some unknown reason to me that is acceptable in our PC society so how far do we want this PCorrectness to go?. Something to think about, huh.

  113. Wayne says:

    Leave the planes historically accurate.

  114. Peter Kraus says:

    Hi,

    I have subscribed to MAN almost continuously since about 1969 and been a modeller since I was about 12.

    I am also a child survivor of the holocaust.

    Although scale WW2 planes are my favourites I cannot bring myself to model a German WW2 aircraft. However that’s just me. I recognise that many of these were fine aircraft and which side any individual flew on was an accident of birth more than anything.

    If anyone models a scale WW2 or indeed any aircraft it must have its scale markings… otherwise we would have censorship that actually interfered with the scale effect we are trying to replicate. it would almost be rewriting history.

    I am free not to model those aircraft myself if I choose not to but I have no negative feelings towards anyone who does. I personally see the Stuka as something I cannot admire, but if someone else feels differently, that’s their right and it doesn’t worry me.

  115. Paul Wendt says:

    My father fought in that war so that we would not have words, symbols, ideas or thoughts banned in any area of our lives. Wether they be for decoration, art or political agenda.

  116. Ken Knittel says:

    It is sad that different symbols, in particular the Swastika on German military vehicles, and the Rising Sun on Japanese, are remembered for the horrible acts that were committed by these countrys, but as others have stated, it is a part of history, and if we start banning a part of history for any reason, where will it stop. when and where do we have the right to pick and choose what should be remembered in our history? the atrocities that the symbols represent are horrible, but the victims should honored by our memory so that we can ensure that things like this do not happen again. thank you.

  117. Nathan Zucker says:

    My entire extended family was exterminated by the Nazis, I have no problem with the swastika on models, it leads children to ask questions and will therefor force us to continue to educate them.

    People that use the swastika because they like it or find it cool have a problem but for the most part, people realize the evil it represents and use it only to replicate something form the war.. I dont think those people celebrate it… they use it because without it.. their model would be missing something that it needs to be “Scale”

  118. Peter Kraus says:

    Hi,

    I submitted this yesterday and it didn’t appear so here goes again.

    I am a long time aeromodeller and subscriber to MAN.

    I am also a child survivor of the holocaust.

    I personally cannot bring myself to build a model of a German aircraft. But that’s just me. Many of these aircraft were superb aeroplanes and in all fairness, whether one flew a Spitfire, Mustang, Me109 or Focke Wulf was determined purely by an accident of birth.

    To not correctly depict the markings for political correctness reasons is tantamount to rewriting history. Just because I personally choose not to model some aircraft means nothing beyond it being my choice. Scale models must have scale markings and this is not to be taken as a political or other statement on the part of the modeler or the magazine publishing the pictures. I have yet to see a model magazine that intends any political statement in publication of pictures of scale models.

    Thanks again for a fine magazine and for your sensitivity in canvassing opinion,

    Peter Kraus

  119. F. R. ESCUDERO says:

    WHAT A B-29 MODEL WITH STARS AND STRIPES WILL REPRESENT TO JAPANESE MODELERS? AND CITIZENS?
    BESIDES, SWASTICA IS HISTORY, THE AMERICAN INDIANS USED AS A SIMBOL THEAT REPRESENT THE MOVEMENTS OR REVOLUTION OF THE SKY, SO DID OTHER AMERICAN TRIBES IN MEXICO.
    HITLER WANTED TO REVOLUCIONAZE THE WORLD AND USED IT ON HIS FLAG.
    IF A MODEL IS TRUE SCALE LET IT BE LIKE THE ORIGINAL.
    THANKS

  120. F. R. ESCUDERO says:

    TGHE SWASTICA IS AN OLD SIMBOL OF THE AMERICAN TRIBES THAT EXISTED BEFORE COLUMBUS. IT REPRFESENTED “THE REVOLUTION OF THE SKY” AND WAS USED BY INDIANS IN U.S.A. MEXICO ,ETC.
    IT WAS HISTORY BEFORE HITLKER EXISTED…

  121. ed harvey says:

    if history could be changed dont you think it would have been done by now learn from history and not make the mistakes again ed

  122. J.Gerogiannis says:

    It is a personal matter. I wouldn’t prefer a swastica on the tail fin of any of my models. Neither to be careful and precise to the fear and terror reproduction this symbol finally represents in the Human History. I prefer to reduce the scale integrity rather than reproduce 100% what people felt when they saw this symbol flying over their heads.

  123. mike mitchell says:

    To those that are remindided of the holocost when they see a swatstika I say theres one more reason why these symbols SHOULD be displayed. That we never forget and be reminded this sort of thing could happen again if we do forget.

  124. Mike M says:

    If you build a scale model, make it authentic. Political correctness is part of the problem, not the answer! I personally will only build allied warbirds.Yes we were the good guys in WW-2

  125. Bill says:

    In this country we enjoy freedom of speech and freedom of expression. My dad fought in WWII to help preserve these things. My feeling is that people are and should be, able to display whatever symbol they care to. That said, I find that some of the posters here seem to be rather beligerent in their defense of this right, to the point of thinking that someone wants to actually BAN the use of these symbols. They should go back and read the premise.

    Further, those who complain about the opinions of those “PC” correctness “liberals” reveal a lot about themselves in the language they employ here. I don’t think this is a very good political forum, myself.

    Try to remember that there are some offensive terms within our own society which the public conscience seems to have outgrown, thank goodness. Remember the common use of a certain word or two that used to be used to describe African Americans? Remember the kind of language that was common not long ago in addressing women? I’m a good part Native American, and I despise the demeaning terms which are used all too often to indicate that fact. The list of this kind of offensive behavior and symbolism in our society is a long one, and the more of it that is expunged by kinder and more considerate thought, the better. Perhaps you disagree. I gotta wonder about you in that case.

    Some here say that if we “ignore” history we will forget and allow its more awful events recur. That’s just downright silly. Should we keep using the “N” word lest we forget? How about some of the other rotten sounding terms we used to use to describe those we used to fight and despise? Do we still use these terms to “preserve history”. Those terms and symbols are now resigned to history books for posterity. Perhaps more of us should read some. To call yourself some sort of a crusader for what’s right be putting these markings on a model airplane is goofy. Mind you, as I stated at the begining, I don’t think you should in any way be legally prevented from doing as you please. I just think some of the reasons given in that defense are irrelevant.

    Some here have said that the logical extension of this thought would be that we should remove the markings from the Allied planes as well and they find that ridiculous. I agree, but so does the rest of the world, including the vast preponderence of German people. There was, and is, a difference in the whole world’s view of those two symbols. The German one to which some object died with that awful group. Ours did not, and few object. Try this. How many of you would be just hunky dory with me building a model airliner and marking it with Al Quaida symbology. I bet that wouldn’t be such a hit at the field, would it? But, after all, it IS simply freedom of expression, ain’t it?

    So go ahead, use whatever markings you like. Just remember, you may be offending some, and breaking the hearts of others.

    Why we can’t just go ahead and use those awful markings and put a half-tone circle with a slash through them, just like at the head of the article?

  126. Andy says:

    “Politically Correct” is often an attempt to rewrite history. We need accurate reminders from the past to hopefully avoid repeating the errors.

  127. Ray Grenkow says:

    There are many great posts here with a majority telling it the way it is!  For those who still have a concern what the swastika represents I understand your dislike for it, but a mistake was made in history and that should never be forgoten regardless of how painful it may be.

    Let us remember the past for the good and the bad and ensure we are not repeating history as we move to the future.

    Historical accuracy is not only important in scale building, but in ensuring the past is correctly represented.

  128. Steve says:

    The Political Coreectness movement (to avoid tender feelings) is counterproductive. Study history for what it was and learn from it. That gives a solid chance of heading off despots like Hitler before they are too well entrenched to remove easily.

    The Iron Cross is a German icon from both wars. Will someone’s tender feelings be hurt by that.

    Why stop at the Swastica? Next we’ll be asked to stop flying all German models as the planes they represent are offensive.

  129. Richard Hargrave says:

    We cannot change history. We should not attempt to do so.

    Banning the application of the Swastika to model airplanes will be a great mistake because it will open the door to arbitrarily banning whatever graphic is considered offensive to this group or that.

    That said, my Me-109 K-4 has no swastika. My choice.

    And that’s the way it should be.

  130. Becket Tanner says:

    Those that do not learn from History are Doomed to repeat it.
    No matter where or what the Symbol is, it is a stark reminder to all of what has happened and can happen again if we allow it to be forgotten.

    It is a piece of History and in no way shape or form should it be banned!

    Whats next? The airliners that were flown into the Towers had there company logo on them, do we make them stop using it becuse it Hurts somebodys poor little feelings? NO if it strikes a chord in your heart when you see it then you know what has happend and will not allow it to happen again! THAT is called learning from the past!

  131. Robert J. Caso says:

    Scale models should display scale markings if they are to be considered accurate. It’s a model, not a political statement.

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